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主题 : 【评论】海外观众观扭三评论的翻译(嘟嘟相关和全剧)7月4日12楼更新
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楼主  发表于: 2011-06-22  

【评论】海外观众观扭三评论的翻译(嘟嘟相关和全剧)7月4日12楼更新

不像各位GN写文做爱慕V填词作画那样油菜花,只能翻译一下海外观众对扭三的评论给GN们看看。评论来自一个海外很有名的三国论坛。我最近在翻译海外观众对扭三的评论,这篇是专门说嘟嘟临终的,翻得我快虐死了。来跟GN们分享一下。下面是某观众对第57、58集的评论。得到了英文原贴作者的转帖及翻译的许可。



先上原贴:


By Lady Wu:

Episode 57

R.I.P. Gongjin. I will love you forever.  

Also, I hate Kongming. This whole "killing without spilling blood" thing is way too nasty. I know, it's brilliant and all, but I'd hate him a lot less if he actually fought a real battle against Zhou Yu on the field and killed him. 

I think the series did a fantastic job showing gradually that Gongjin was not a egomaniac who cared only about his own ambitions. Although he seemed that way at first, before the gates of Nanjun/Jingzhou (by Mengde's Curly Beard I want to murder whoever did the geography research---or didn't) he ordered a retreat instead of taking by force what he desired for so long---for the sake of saving the soldiers. Then, in this episode, he swallowed the indignation and accepted Zhuge's offer---again, so that Southland soldiers wouldn't have to die for a vain cause. And finally, he revealed all on his deathbed, telling Sun Quan that he was only acting stubborn and tyrannical for the greater good of Wu---and because he knew that Sun Quan was broad-minded enough to handle it

Although Zhou Yu and Sun Quan appeared to be at odds with each other most of the time, they trusted each other for no other reason than that they knew it was the right thing to do, and the other person would give the same amount of trust back. Sure, it's been a political game at times, and Sun Quan did have to draw the line once or twice (like that time when he said "if he doesn't consider me his lord..." thing to Lu Su). However, the amount of trust between those two is just incredible. Sun Quan trusted that Zhou Yu wouldn't get Wu destroyed, and Zhou Yu trusted that Sun Quan wouldn't get him killed for insubordination, even though all external signs showed that Zhou Yu would get Wu burnt and that Sun Quan was uneasy about Zhou Yu's power. 

I don't think Sun Quan regretted investing all this power and trust into Gongjin. His only regret was that Gongjin was unable to agree with him on the particulars of the Southland's expansion strategy. *tissue time*

Speaking of the death scene, I am so impressed with all the little details in it. Zhou Yu's regular clothes were hung at the back of the room, which I thought was a nice touch. I don't recall any other sleep/sick/death scenes where you could so visibly see the clothes that the person wasn't wearing. Obviously if Zhou Yu was lying in bed he wasn't going to wear his full set of day clothes, but having all that behind Sun Quan seems to signify that Zhou Yu had put aside his pride, his power, his pretense, and was really addressing Sun Quan honestly and as himself. He was no longer the Handsome Master Zhou, Grand Commander of Wu, but just a dying man who wanted his inmost thoughts heard and appreciated.

The other nice piece in the set was the scroll by Zhou Yu's bed. Earlier on we've seen Zhou Yu obsessing over a scroll, which Zhou Yu described to Lu Meng as "a masterpiece by the greatest mind" (or something like that). We've inferred that he's talking about Zhuge Liang, but now it's made completely explicit. (Honestly, though, if they really wanted the audience to catch on to the title of the scroll, they really should NOT have used the Seal Script but instead the Clerical Script (隶书), which was more appropriate anyway. They made Cao Cao write a character in the Seal Script in ep 60, too, and that made me want to throw things across the room.)

The glances that Zhou Yu gave Lu Meng were also fantastic. Poor Ziming. I want to give him a hug. 

Episode 58

Can I say again I want to give Lu Meng a hug?

He's obviously disappointed that he wasn't named the next Grand Commander. But he trusted his beloved Gongjin and his lord so much that he graciously lent his complete support to Lu Su. Lu Meng's acting was superb through the funeral bit. He didn't have to say anything (I don't think he had lines?) but you can tell how sad, how dejected, and how furious he was.

This episode makes me really really want to kill Kongming. Though I have to say the acting is fantastic.

And finally, comic relief! Pang Tong! He and Zhang Fei = Best combination ever.

[ 此帖被文君在2011-07-04 12:09重新编辑 ]
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置顶  来自6楼  发表于: 2011-06-23  
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沙发  发表于: 2011-06-22  
------不知道这个帖子发在这里合不合适,违规的话请版主军杖

以下翻译:

第57集 (文君:只见集名,心中一紧)

安息吧,公瑾。我永远都爱你!(文君:此乃作者Lady Wu代表广大嘟嘟粉的千年表白)

孔明,我恨你!这样“杀人不见血”的行为太卑鄙无耻下流了!(文君:亮粉们坐下喝杯茶先!)。我知道,这显出孔明的智谋超群神马的。唉,倘使孔明真正地与周郎对决于疆场,真刀真枪地杀了他的话,我也不会那么恨了!

我觉得新三国对于公瑾性格的多层次的渐进处理真是太出彩了!我们慢慢看到公瑾不是一个只关注自己野心的自大狂。尽管一开始他看起来是那样的,但是在南郡/荆州门前(我对着斯基瞒的泡面胡子发誓我想弄死写这段情节时负责查地图的那个人『文君注:此处说的莫不是罗大叔』,嗯,估计他根本没查!),他下令撤军,放弃强攻他朝思暮想的南郡城,为的是给东吴多留下些江东子弟。然后,同是在这一集里,他强忍下愤恨和屈辱,接受了诸葛亮信中所提的建议下令从东南小路退兵,也是为了避免无谓牺牲,想给东吴留下那些士兵。最后,在临终之时,他全部向孙权坦诚说明,他这么做是为了东吴的稳固,他只能霸道专横,而且他知道孙权器量宏大能够明白他的苦心。

『文君插播,嘟嘟临终遗言回放:“主公,你来了......主公,我要走了......伯父将军临走时,让我辅佐主公,保住江东。不想才十年光景,我就不能再为主公效力了......我的伤我自己最清楚。这次,好不起来了......主公你继承东吴基业以来,周瑜我多有忤犯。主公,你不会记恨我吧......其实,我也是不得以而为之。江东的老将,许多人都曾追随过老主公,伯符将军再一走,留下寡母幼弟。江东如果没有一个权威,必然乱成一团。为了稳住局面,我只好霸道行事,以震慑住这帮老将。可如此一来,就难免分主公之权了......我知道,我知道,这是犯忌的事。可我还敢这么做,能这么做,都是因为我知道,主公你是个有雅量的人......主公,江东虽然已经根基牢固,但毕竟是偏狭之地,刘备,曹操,这都是几百年才出一个的枭雄。伴虎而生,你可千万不可有丝毫的懈怠啊!......主公请讲.......有一个人,比我识大体,才胜于我,德更高于我,可为江东柱石......鲁子敬.......请主公拜他为大都督......那我就放心了......可惜呀,可惜......(请脑补结句:非瑜背诺,天不假年)』插播结束。

尽管很多时候周瑜和孙权会意见不一致,但是他们一直都互相信任,只因他们都知道那就是他们该做的,而且也因为他们彼此深知对方会回报以相同的信任。不错,有时候他们之间会变成政治游戏,有几次孙权也不得不微妙地挑明一些事情(就像那次对鲁肃说“他不以我君,我还何必以他为臣”之类的虐心事件)。但是不管怎么说,这两只的相互信任真的是惊人的!孙权信任周瑜不会毁掉东吴,周瑜也信任孙权不会因为自己的僭越之举而降罪于他,哪怕当时已经很明显的可以看出,周瑜的军事行动会让东吴消耗到空虚而孙权也已经对他周瑜的权力之大有所顾忌了。

我觉得孙权从没对授予公瑾的极大权力和信任有所后悔。他唯一的遗憾只是为什么公瑾要在某些关键战略计划的具体实施问题上和他意见相左。(*纸巾时间*)

周瑜临终的那场戏里,好多小细节着实令人感动!周瑜平时穿的那套衣服挂在后面的墙上,是个有爱的小细节。我不记得其他的睡眠/病卧/临终场景里可以这么明晰地看到人物没穿在身上的衣服被挂起来。周瑜病卧在榻上当然不可能穿平时的一整套华服,但是那一套衣服就那样地挂在孙权的身后,显示着周瑜已经把自己所有的傲娇/权力/伪装完完全全地卸下,在发自肺腑地跟孙权说自己最后的话。他不再是那个英俊潇洒的周郎,也不再是那个威风凛凛的东吴大都督,他只是一个将死之人,想把自己内心最深处的想法倾诉给孙权并得到他的理解。(文君:翻的我都快哭了,大都督啊!~之前确实没有注意到这个衣服的细节,又重看了一遍,虐!)

这个场景里另外一个微妙的小道具是周瑜床边的那卷竹简。之前的戏里演过周瑜一直对这卷竹简念念不忘终日研读,他曾对吕蒙说这是一卷“大家的杰作”(差不多是这么意思。文君:我没查原文嘟嘟是怎么说的)。可以猜想当时他指的是诸葛亮,但是这时候这个谜底被彻底挑明了。(虽然说实话,如果他们真的想让观众看清楚书卷的题目作者,他们真的不应该用篆书,而是应该用隶书,而且本来隶书才更合理。他们让曹操在第60集里用篆书写了个门字,我都想把电视砸了!)

周瑜透过孙权望向吕蒙的那几眼也妙极!可怜的子明。我真想抱抱他!


第58集

我能再说一遍么?好想抱抱吕蒙蒙!

听到周瑜指定的接班人不是他,他很明显有点失望。但是他如此地信任他深爱的公瑾和主公,他就毫无保留的支持继任者鲁肃。吕蒙(常铖)在灵堂的表现也是极好的。他完全不用说话(估计他也确实没有任何台词)却那么真切地演出来他的悲痛,他的忧郁,和他心中满满的愤恨。

这一集让我真的真的想杀了孔明!不过我还是要说,演员的表演真是太出色了。

这集最后终于出现了喜剧性调剂!庞统!他和张飞 = 天生的一对儿活宝!
清空我的评分动态本帖最近评分记录: 共2条评分记录
崔文 威望 +5 2011-06-23 欢迎姑凉,继续更新啊~XD
崔文 铜币 +15 2011-06-23 欢迎姑凉,继续更新啊~XD
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板凳  发表于: 2011-06-22  
写的真好。那个衣服的细节诠释得太让人感动了。关于子明的部分,也说到我心里去了。
原作者是身在海外的中国人吧?谢谢文君的翻译,另外插播的那一段也是催人泪下。让我们知道,即使身在海外的人,也被都督的魅力深深打动。
楼主留言:
嗯,原作者是海外华人。我其实也是时差党。谢谢GN的鼓励。这段翻的很爽也很虐,又回顾一遍嘟嘟临终。黄童鞋演技真棒!
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地板  发表于: 2011-06-22  
请问竹简的作者是谁呢

衣服的细节真是感人 终于卸下所有伪装 说出心里的话 好歹在临终前 所有的心结都打开了
楼主留言:
作者就是诸葛亮啦吧。一直都是这么暗示的。不过说实话我也没看清那个篆体字。嗯嗯,这段表白很有爱,虽然很虐。
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4楼  发表于: 2011-06-22  
嘟嘟乃被海外人士认可了,真好,黄先森对嘟嘟的表演的确很到位,蒙蒙辛苦了。。。
楼主留言:
嗯,那个英文论坛上很多嘟嘟粉的
!!在他们讨论新三国的高楼里,嘟嘟的头像出现率最高。黄童鞋的演技真的是很出色!
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5楼  发表于: 2011-06-22  
演员们演得真好,尤其是嘟嘟,在那样的剧本之下都能把美洲狼的神采气度真正的演绎出来,太令人感动了。原文作者写的真好,只是有些奇怪为什么华人在三国论坛里面用英文写东西,是不是有不少外国友人也会光顾这个网站啊?

最后称赞一句:LZ翻译的真好!全文语句通顺流畅,而且富有感情,把原文中的意思全部准确无误的表达出来了。LZV5!乃是不是学的就是这个啊?
楼主留言:
快死了,给GN留言一大篇,两次了,没等发就没了。在墙外就素悲催啊,上研究所速度也特别慢,还总上不来。

先谢谢GN夸奖,MUA,其实我真素第一次翻译。但素对嘟嘟和扭三的爱,推动着我努力前进。

关于英文的问题,原帖来自一个非常著名的英文的三国论坛,上面大多素喜欢三国的外国人。Lady Wu素上面的管理员,她组织翻译了扭三的英文字幕,这样外国新三粉丝才看成的扭三,他们发了很多评论,他们也看爱慕威神马的(虽然歌词听不懂),还有各种HC演员剧照神马的,都很有爱!Lady Wu虽然素华人也在上面用英文和大家交流的
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6楼  发表于: 2011-06-23  
管理提醒: (崔文) 执行 帖内置顶 操作 (2011-06-23 10:01)
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7楼  发表于: 2011-06-25  
很不错啊,一直就很想知道外面对于扭三和演员的评价看法之类的,记得之前小粉红还有过一个翻译日语的扭三楼,可惜感觉没翻多少过来。GN翻译的很好啊,感情都很自然生动,果然是因为有爱的缘故吧,我也觉得黄先森的演技没话说。
那我想知道,那个三国论坛对扭三看法怎么样?讨论的热火不?她们最喜欢哪几个演员(这是重点),评价如何?还有她们有没有做MV写文什么的呢,还是能看到我们这边的MV呢(其实我想把同人大战推荐给她们),GN你能不能详细的说一说呢,不好意思一不小心就多说了可人家真的很想知道啊嘤嘤嘤
楼主留言:
那边论坛对扭三看法普遍很好啊。我觉得基本上都是很喜欢的。我再弄几段对扭三整体的评论过来,大家看看。文的话不知道,MV他们是找到tudou看的!有个GN还说特别喜欢一首用了《等到花儿也谢了》的MV,我不知道是哪个。其实我也想给他们推荐更多的MV,不过需要翻译字幕啊。

演员啊,似乎论坛上的GN们都喜欢嘟嘟这个角色!男性观众不太清楚。似乎皇叔,狐狸,小权,鲁兔,斯基瞒都被夸过!
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8楼  发表于: 2011-07-01  
下面更一段一个母语是英语的外国人对扭三整体的评论。

By: Crazedmongoose

Both of the theme songs suck massive genitalia compared to the theme songs of the original series.

两只主题曲全都太糟糕了,比起老版的差的太*操*蛋*袅。(文君:原文如此哈,genitalia=***)


Man I'm starting to dislike a lot of facets of this. Bits and characters which I think are really important are just being completely glossed over. Like Emperor Xian's

depredations at the hands of Li Jue and Guo Si are completely not shown. His journey west isn't shown. Nor are characters like Yang Feng, Xu Huang etc. so far. We

haven't seen any signs of Dian Wei, Jia Xiu, Zhang Liao and Guo Jia, all of whom should be out and about by now.

天,我开始讨厌好多方面了。一些很重要的情节和人物全都被忽视掉了。献帝被李傕、郭汜如何蹂躏的完全没有演(文君:真是重口味啊)。

还有他西逃的过程。还有杨奉,徐晃等人。而且到现在为止也没有看到典韦,贾诩,张辽和郭嘉,这些人早就该出来了。


Characters which improved under the new version so far (in order of most to least):

Liu Bei (very heroic and masculine, yet still kind and righteous)
Sun Jian (brave and cunning, but with a hint of arrogance and familial love)
Wang Yun (stoic and righteous, yet frail and on the brink)
Xun Yu (intelligent and decisive, cunning yet still honorable)

目前新版里大有改进的人物 (按改进的多少排):
刘备(很英雄,男人味,而且还很亲切又有正义感)(文君:这样赞皇叔我爱听)
孙坚(智勇双全,但有一点点傲慢和居家男)(文君:嗯,赞坚爸)
王允(喜怒不行于色,正义,但又脆弱的面临崩溃)
荀彧(有智谋,善决断,狡猾但又忠义)

Mixed opinion:

Cao Cao (much more capable, but far less emotional and human than the real Cao Cao, and also too pragmatic and amoral)
Zhang Fei (not really sure if we should be turning the cruel and callous mighty warrior into comic relief)
Lu Bu (I never agreed with the cultural view that Lu Bu was a dumb brute, but here he pretty much is that. Without Chen Gong you think he'd be too stupid to breathe,

however he looks much cooler and he's got a childish arrogance. Although there's a degree of redemption. Liu Bei states "look at how his army is organized and

disciplined. This Lu Bu, when he isn't immersed in wine and women, is truly a brave and resourceful general")
Diao Chan (better in every regard but way.too.old)

新版里好坏参半的人物:
曹操(更有能力,但是比起历史上真人好像没有人的感情似的;而且太实用主义没有道德观了)
张飞(不确定为什么把残暴无情的万人敌改编成一个喜剧调剂人物)
吕布(我从来不觉得吕布是个愚蠢的好色之徒,但是感觉这里他差不就是这样而已。没有陈宫的话,你都会觉得他傻的都不会自主呼吸,但是

表面上看起来他又挺酷的,还有一种孩子般的小傲慢。可是,他也并非无可救药。刘备说:看他的军队如此训练有素,当他不是沉浸于酒和美

女中时,确实是个勇冠三军的上将)


Where the hell is:

Guo Jia, I will be incensed if they leave out Guo Jia, although to be honest he wasn't in ROTK at this point either
Xu Huang, should have long made his appearance by now
Zhang Liao
Jia Xiu

这些人死到哪去袅:
郭嘉(如果真的没有郭嘉我会怒的。虽然到现在为止,在演义里郭嘉确实还没有出现)
徐晃(早就该出来了)
张辽
贾诩
(文君:不解释,没有解释)


Who the hell is:

Lordling Tao (Tao Qian's son)
Random old dude who advises Yuan Shu

这些都是神马袅人:
陶谦之子
袁术的谋士路人甲爷爷


Aww dammit, they skipped over it? I was really looking forward to watching:

The Puyang Campaign (Lu Bu vs. Cao Cao)
The battle of rongyang (Xu Rong vs. Cao Cao)
Emperor Xian's escape and journey to Luo Yang

唉,他们竟然没播这几段,郁闷:
濮阳之战(吕布对曹操)
徐荣和曹操的对决 文君:历史上的这位是个猛人)
献帝出逃到洛阳

清空我的评分动态本帖最近评分记录: 共2条评分记录
崔文 威望 +4 2011-07-01 杂谈开始往国际化方向发展了么XD
崔文 铜币 +10 2011-07-01 杂谈开始往国际化方向发展了么XD
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