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文君 2011-06-22 06:09

【评论】海外观众观扭三评论的翻译（嘟嘟相关和全剧）7月4日12楼更新

不像各位GN写文做爱慕V填词作画那样油菜花，只能翻译一下海外观众对扭三的评论给GN们看看。评论来自一个海外很有名的三国论坛。我最近在翻译海外观众对扭三的评论，这篇是专门说嘟嘟临终的，翻得我快虐死了。来跟GN们分享一下。下面是某观众对第57、58集的评论。得到了英文原贴作者的转帖及翻译的许可。



先上原贴：


By Lady Wu:

Episode 57

R.I.P. Gongjin. I will love you forever.  

Also, I hate Kongming. This whole "killing without spilling blood" thing is way too nasty. I know, it's brilliant and all, but I'd hate him a lot less if he actually fought a real battle against Zhou Yu on the field and killed him. 

I think the series did a fantastic job showing gradually that Gongjin was not a egomaniac who cared only about his own ambitions. Although he seemed that way at first, before the gates of Nanjun/Jingzhou (by Mengde's Curly Beard I want to murder whoever did the geography research---or didn't) he ordered a retreat instead of taking by force what he desired for so long---for the sake of saving the soldiers. Then, in this episode, he swallowed the indignation and accepted Zhuge's offer---again, so that Southland soldiers wouldn't have to die for a vain cause. And finally, he revealed all on his deathbed, telling Sun Quan that he was only acting stubborn and tyrannical for the greater good of Wu---and because he knew that Sun Quan was broad-minded enough to handle it. 

Although Zhou Yu and Sun Quan appeared to be at odds with each other most of the time, they trusted each other for no other reason than that they knew it was the right thing to do, and the other person would give the same amount of trust back. Sure, it's been a political game at times, and Sun Quan did have to draw the line once or twice (like that time when he said "if he doesn't consider me his lord..." thing to Lu Su). However, the amount of trust between those two is just incredible. Sun Quan trusted that Zhou Yu wouldn't get Wu destroyed, and Zhou Yu trusted that Sun Quan wouldn't get him killed for insubordination, even though all external signs showed that Zhou Yu would get Wu burnt and that Sun Quan was uneasy about Zhou Yu's power. 

I don't think Sun Quan regretted investing all this power and trust into Gongjin. His only regret was that Gongjin was unable to agree with him on the particulars of the Southland's expansion strategy. *tissue time*

Speaking of the death scene, I am so impressed with all the little details in it. Zhou Yu's regular clothes were hung at the back of the room, which I thought was a nice touch. I don't recall any other sleep/sick/death scenes where you could so visibly see the clothes that the person wasn't wearing. Obviously if Zhou Yu was lying in bed he wasn't going to wear his full set of day clothes, but having all that behind Sun Quan seems to signify that Zhou Yu had put aside his pride, his power, his pretense, and was really addressing Sun Quan honestly and as himself. He was no longer the Handsome Master Zhou, Grand Commander of Wu, but just a dying man who wanted his inmost thoughts heard and appreciated.

The other nice piece in the set was the scroll by Zhou Yu's bed. Earlier on we've seen Zhou Yu obsessing over a scroll, which Zhou Yu described to Lu Meng as "a masterpiece by the greatest mind" (or something like that). We've inferred that he's talking about Zhuge Liang, but now it's made completely explicit. (Honestly, though, if they really wanted the audience to catch on to the title of the scroll, they really should NOT have used the Seal Script but instead the Clerical Script (隶书), which was more appropriate anyway. They made Cao Cao write a character in the Seal Script in ep 60, too, and that made me want to throw things across the room.)

The glances that Zhou Yu gave Lu Meng were also fantastic. Poor Ziming. I want to give him a hug. 

Episode 58

Can I say again I want to give Lu Meng a hug?

He's obviously disappointed that he wasn't named the next Grand Commander. But he trusted his beloved Gongjin and his lord so much that he graciously lent his complete support to Lu Su. Lu Meng's acting was superb through the funeral bit. He didn't have to say anything (I don't think he had lines?) but you can tell how sad, how dejected, and how furious he was.

This episode makes me really really want to kill Kongming. Though I have to say the acting is fantastic.

And finally, comic relief! Pang Tong! He and Zhang Fei = Best combination ever.

文君 2011-06-22 06:11
------不知道这个帖子发在这里合不合适，违规的话请版主军杖

以下翻译：

第57集 （文君：只见集名，心中一紧）

安息吧，公瑾。我永远都爱你！（文君：此乃作者Lady Wu代表广大嘟嘟粉的千年表白）

孔明，我恨你！这样“杀人不见血”的行为太卑鄙无耻下流了！（文君：亮粉们坐下喝杯茶先！）。我知道，这显出孔明的智谋超群神马的。唉，倘使孔明真正地与周郎对决于疆场，真刀真枪地杀了他的话，我也不会那么恨了！

我觉得新三国对于公瑾性格的多层次的渐进处理真是太出彩了！我们慢慢看到公瑾不是一个只关注自己野心的自大狂。尽管一开始他看起来是那样的，但是在南郡/荆州门前（我对着斯基瞒的泡面胡子发誓我想弄死写这段情节时负责查地图的那个人『文君注：此处说的莫不是罗大叔』，嗯，估计他根本没查！），他下令撤军，放弃强攻他朝思暮想的南郡城，为的是给东吴多留下些江东子弟。然后，同是在这一集里，他强忍下愤恨和屈辱，接受了诸葛亮信中所提的建议下令从东南小路退兵，也是为了避免无谓牺牲，想给东吴留下那些士兵。最后，在临终之时，他全部向孙权坦诚说明，他这么做是为了东吴的稳固，他只能霸道专横，而且他知道孙权器量宏大能够明白他的苦心。

『文君插播，嘟嘟临终遗言回放：“主公，你来了......主公，我要走了......伯父将军临走时，让我辅佐主公，保住江东。不想才十年光景，我就不能再为主公效力了......我的伤我自己最清楚。这次，好不起来了......主公你继承东吴基业以来，周瑜我多有忤犯。主公，你不会记恨我吧......其实，我也是不得以而为之。江东的老将，许多人都曾追随过老主公，伯符将军再一走，留下寡母幼弟。江东如果没有一个权威，必然乱成一团。为了稳住局面，我只好霸道行事，以震慑住这帮老将。可如此一来，就难免分主公之权了......我知道，我知道，这是犯忌的事。可我还敢这么做，能这么做，都是因为我知道，主公你是个有雅量的人......主公，江东虽然已经根基牢固，但毕竟是偏狭之地，刘备，曹操，这都是几百年才出一个的枭雄。伴虎而生，你可千万不可有丝毫的懈怠啊！......主公请讲.......有一个人，比我识大体，才胜于我，德更高于我，可为江东柱石......鲁子敬.......请主公拜他为大都督......那我就放心了......可惜呀，可惜......（请脑补结句：非瑜背诺，天不假年）』插播结束。

尽管很多时候周瑜和孙权会意见不一致,但是他们一直都互相信任，只因他们都知道那就是他们该做的，而且也因为他们彼此深知对方会回报以相同的信任。不错，有时候他们之间会变成政治游戏，有几次孙权也不得不微妙地挑明一些事情（就像那次对鲁肃说“他不以我君，我还何必以他为臣”之类的虐心事件）。但是不管怎么说，这两只的相互信任真的是惊人的！孙权信任周瑜不会毁掉东吴，周瑜也信任孙权不会因为自己的僭越之举而降罪于他，哪怕当时已经很明显的可以看出，周瑜的军事行动会让东吴消耗到空虚而孙权也已经对他周瑜的权力之大有所顾忌了。

我觉得孙权从没对授予公瑾的极大权力和信任有所后悔。他唯一的遗憾只是为什么公瑾要在某些关键战略计划的具体实施问题上和他意见相左。（*纸巾时间*）

周瑜临终的那场戏里，好多小细节着实令人感动！周瑜平时穿的那套衣服挂在后面的墙上，是个有爱的小细节。我不记得其他的睡眠/病卧/临终场景里可以这么明晰地看到人物没穿在身上的衣服被挂起来。周瑜病卧在榻上当然不可能穿平时的一整套华服，但是那一套衣服就那样地挂在孙权的身后，显示着周瑜已经把自己所有的傲娇/权力/伪装完完全全地卸下，在发自肺腑地跟孙权说自己最后的话。他不再是那个英俊潇洒的周郎，也不再是那个威风凛凛的东吴大都督，他只是一个将死之人，想把自己内心最深处的想法倾诉给孙权并得到他的理解。（文君：翻的我都快哭了，大都督啊！～之前确实没有注意到这个衣服的细节，又重看了一遍，虐！）

这个场景里另外一个微妙的小道具是周瑜床边的那卷竹简。之前的戏里演过周瑜一直对这卷竹简念念不忘终日研读，他曾对吕蒙说这是一卷“大家的杰作”（差不多是这么意思。文君：我没查原文嘟嘟是怎么说的）。可以猜想当时他指的是诸葛亮，但是这时候这个谜底被彻底挑明了。（虽然说实话，如果他们真的想让观众看清楚书卷的题目作者，他们真的不应该用篆书，而是应该用隶书，而且本来隶书才更合理。他们让曹操在第60集里用篆书写了个门字，我都想把电视砸了！）

周瑜透过孙权望向吕蒙的那几眼也妙极！可怜的子明。我真想抱抱他！


第58集

我能再说一遍么？好想抱抱吕蒙蒙！

听到周瑜指定的接班人不是他，他很明显有点失望。但是他如此地信任他深爱的公瑾和主公，他就毫无保留的支持继任者鲁肃。吕蒙（常铖）在灵堂的表现也是极好的。他完全不用说话（估计他也确实没有任何台词）却那么真切地演出来他的悲痛，他的忧郁，和他心中满满的愤恨。

这一集让我真的真的想杀了孔明！不过我还是要说，演员的表演真是太出色了。

这集最后终于出现了喜剧性调剂！庞统！他和张飞 = 天生的一对儿活宝！

绿茶的情意-- 2011-06-22 10:27
写的真好。那个衣服的细节诠释得太让人感动了。关于子明的部分，也说到我心里去了。
原作者是身在海外的中国人吧？谢谢文君的翻译，另外插播的那一段也是催人泪下。让我们知道，即使身在海外的人，也被都督的魅力深深打动。

蓝基娅 2011-06-22 13:02
请问竹简的作者是谁呢

衣服的细节真是感人 终于卸下所有伪装 说出心里的话 好歹在临终前 所有的心结都打开了

最爱美洲狼 2011-06-22 14:32
嘟嘟乃被海外人士认可了，真好，黄先森对嘟嘟的表演的确很到位，蒙蒙辛苦了。。。

女儿红 2011-06-22 15:18
演员们演得真好，尤其是嘟嘟，在那样的剧本之下都能把美洲狼的神采气度真正的演绎出来，太令人感动了。原文作者写的真好，只是有些奇怪为什么华人在三国论坛里面用英文写东西，是不是有不少外国友人也会光顾这个网站啊？

最后称赞一句：LZ翻译的真好！全文语句通顺流畅，而且富有感情，把原文中的意思全部准确无误的表达出来了。LZV5！乃是不是学的就是这个啊？

文君 2011-06-23 05:03
听版主的。原帖链接和许可链接神马的，在这里。国内没有相册，国外相册连了估计也得被墙，好像又不能弄附件。所以只有地址了：


http://the-scholars.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20462&st=0&sk=t&sd=a


http://the-scholars.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20462&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=660




http://tieba.baidu.com/f?z=1110763243&ct=335544320&lm=0&sc=0&rn=30&tn=baiduPostBrowser&word=%D0%C2%B0%E6%C8%FD%B9%FA&pn=0




http://tieba.baidu.com/f?z=1110763243&ct=335544320&lm=0&sc=0&rn=30&tn=baiduPostBrowser&word=%D0%C2%B0%E6%C8%FD%B9%FA&pn=90

万年包子脸 2011-06-25 21:06
很不错啊，一直就很想知道外面对于扭三和演员的评价看法之类的，记得之前小粉红还有过一个翻译日语的扭三楼，可惜感觉没翻多少过来。GN翻译的很好啊，感情都很自然生动，果然是因为有爱的缘故吧，我也觉得黄先森的演技没话说。
那我想知道，那个三国论坛对扭三看法怎么样？讨论的热火不？她们最喜欢哪几个演员（这是重点），评价如何？还有她们有没有做MV写文什么的呢，还是能看到我们这边的MV呢（其实我想把同人大战推荐给她们），GN你能不能详细的说一说呢，不好意思一不小心就多说了可人家真的很想知道啊嘤嘤嘤

文君 2011-07-01 00:18
下面更一段一个母语是英语的外国人对扭三整体的评论。

By: Crazedmongoose

Both of the theme songs suck massive genitalia compared to the theme songs of the original series.

两只主题曲全都太糟糕了，比起老版的差的太*操*蛋*袅。（文君：原文如此哈，genitalia=***）


Man I'm starting to dislike a lot of facets of this. Bits and characters which I think are really important are just being completely glossed over. Like Emperor Xian's

depredations at the hands of Li Jue and Guo Si are completely not shown. His journey west isn't shown. Nor are characters like Yang Feng, Xu Huang etc. so far. We

haven't seen any signs of Dian Wei, Jia Xiu, Zhang Liao and Guo Jia, all of whom should be out and about by now.

天，我开始讨厌好多方面了。一些很重要的情节和人物全都被忽视掉了。献帝被李傕、郭汜如何蹂躏的完全没有演（文君：真是重口味啊）。

还有他西逃的过程。还有杨奉，徐晃等人。而且到现在为止也没有看到典韦，贾诩，张辽和郭嘉，这些人早就该出来了。


Characters which improved under the new version so far (in order of most to least):

Liu Bei (very heroic and masculine, yet still kind and righteous)
Sun Jian (brave and cunning, but with a hint of arrogance and familial love)
Wang Yun (stoic and righteous, yet frail and on the brink)
Xun Yu (intelligent and decisive, cunning yet still honorable)

目前新版里大有改进的人物 （按改进的多少排）：
刘备（很英雄，男人味，而且还很亲切又有正义感）（文君：这样赞皇叔我爱听）
孙坚（智勇双全，但有一点点傲慢和居家男）（文君：嗯，赞坚爸）
王允（喜怒不行于色，正义，但又脆弱的面临崩溃）
荀彧（有智谋，善决断，狡猾但又忠义）

Mixed opinion:

Cao Cao (much more capable, but far less emotional and human than the real Cao Cao, and also too pragmatic and amoral)
Zhang Fei (not really sure if we should be turning the cruel and callous mighty warrior into comic relief)
Lu Bu (I never agreed with the cultural view that Lu Bu was a dumb brute, but here he pretty much is that. Without Chen Gong you think he'd be too stupid to breathe,

however he looks much cooler and he's got a childish arrogance. Although there's a degree of redemption. Liu Bei states "look at how his army is organized and

disciplined. This Lu Bu, when he isn't immersed in wine and women, is truly a brave and resourceful general")
Diao Chan (better in every regard but way.too.old)

新版里好坏参半的人物：
曹操（更有能力，但是比起历史上真人好像没有人的感情似的；而且太实用主义没有道德观了）
张飞（不确定为什么把残暴无情的万人敌改编成一个喜剧调剂人物）
吕布（我从来不觉得吕布是个愚蠢的好色之徒，但是感觉这里他差不就是这样而已。没有陈宫的话，你都会觉得他傻的都不会自主呼吸，但是

表面上看起来他又挺酷的，还有一种孩子般的小傲慢。可是，他也并非无可救药。刘备说：看他的军队如此训练有素，当他不是沉浸于酒和美

女中时，确实是个勇冠三军的上将）


Where the hell is:

Guo Jia, I will be incensed if they leave out Guo Jia, although to be honest he wasn't in ROTK at this point either
Xu Huang, should have long made his appearance by now
Zhang Liao
Jia Xiu

这些人死到哪去袅：
郭嘉（如果真的没有郭嘉我会怒的。虽然到现在为止，在演义里郭嘉确实还没有出现）
徐晃（早就该出来了）
张辽
贾诩
（文君：不解释，没有解释）


Who the hell is:

Lordling Tao (Tao Qian's son)
Random old dude who advises Yuan Shu

这些都是神马袅人：
陶谦之子
袁术的谋士路人甲爷爷


Aww dammit, they skipped over it? I was really looking forward to watching:

The Puyang Campaign (Lu Bu vs. Cao Cao)
The battle of rongyang (Xu Rong vs. Cao Cao)
Emperor Xian's escape and journey to Luo Yang

唉，他们竟然没播这几段，郁闷：
濮阳之战（吕布对曹操）
徐荣和曹操的对决 文君：历史上的这位是个猛人）
献帝出逃到洛阳

文君 2011-07-01 00:40
还是同一位外国友人写的，这段是在看完全剧之后的整体评论。跟一开始的抱怨比起来很有意思。

By Crazedmongoose

They just keep mentioning Sun Quan's ass getting kicked by Zhang Liao.

ANYWAY I'VE FINISHED THE SHOW


Verdict, I definitely liked the show better later on. It's definitely much less Shu-ist than all previous incarnations, though when you compare it to say SGZ and ZZTJ it's still undoubtedly Shu-ist (and SGZ/ZZTJ are already biased for Shu and Wei/Shu). The romanticism for Liu Bei and his brothers and Zhuge Liang is still intense. Though once you took Liu Bei etc. out of the picture it was hard to cheer exclusively for Shu as you would when reading SGYY.

The actor for Cao Cao often irked me when he was younger. I think because Cao Cao is shown squarely here as a villainous protagonist all the way through. I on the other hand only attribute Cao Cao's later years as villainous, and I consider his early years to be the stuff of heroes. Here for some reason he's much worse in his early years, in terms of callously killing and being unreasonable.


By faaaarrrrr the two most interesting and well done thing are Zhuge Liang's northern expeditions and his face off against Sima Yi; and Wu's four generations of Viceroys vendetta against Shu.

During the scene for Shang*fang valley (the fictional battle) almost brought a tear to my eye. Actually this scene really hammered home the "Shu no longer the unquestioned protagonists" point.

SPOILER ALERT

As Sima Yi's army became hopelessly trapped in Shang*fang valley and were slowly dying, Sima Yi ordered his men to put down their weapons and exit the valley in surrender. His generals asked what would he do, and Sima Yi replied that as commander in chief he must die at his post. The soldiers and officers refused to surrender. They ceased their attempts to break out Sima Zhao lead the men in singing the Chinese verse "风萧萧兮易水寒，壮士一去不复返” (the wind blows and freezes the water of yi; the hero leaves and will not return). This song was sang historically by the assassin Jing Ke as he set out to kill the King of Qin who was invading the other kingdoms. And the moral complexity really set in, as far as these generals and men were concerned there is nothing concerning the restoration of the Han. The Shu armies were invaders and as men of Wei they'll die protecting their country. Just as Jing Ke, a man of the northern kingdom of Wei (the predecessor of Three Kingdom's Wei to be exact) gave his life to protect the central plains/northern lands from invaders from the west (in Jing Ke's case Qin, in these men's case Shu).

Spoiler End

The Shu/Wu conflict was well done too. By the end of it you really believed that Lu Meng wanted nothing less than to kill Guan Yu with his bare hands, and you wanted him to as well. Historically Wu vs. Shu was pretty opportunistic, but if you follow the SGYY traditions, which this show does, then it's hard to argue Shu isn't being a complete bully the whole way through. But in SGYY none of the Wu characters were remotely likable enough that you wanted Wu to win against Shu even though it was clear Shu was in the wrong. Here though, Zhou Yu and Lu Su are so likeable that you can't help but side with them.


他们怎么总提孙权如何被张辽打的落花流水。。。

总之我看完全剧了。

结论：越到后面越精彩。不像之前所有的版本那么以蜀汉为正统了，虽然如果比起来《三国志》和《资治通鉴》来说，这部戏还是不可避免会多少倾向于蜀（其实《三国志》和《资治通鉴》已经是偏向于蜀和魏/蜀了）。新版三国，对刘备和结义兄弟还有诸葛亮的浪漫化演绎还是依然非常强烈的（文君：刘关张没看出来，玄亮嘛，嘿嘿；不好意思哈，自pia）。但是新版里你一旦把刘备这个角色从前面这些关系里拎出来，就很难像读《三国演义》时那样做坚定的蜀粉了。

曹操年轻的部分，演员挺让我烦的。我觉得是因为这版里，曹操从头到尾直接被定义为一个恶毒的主角。但是我觉得晚年的曹操才是个奸雄，年轻的曹操还是个英雄。但是在这版里，他无情杀人和不讲理让人觉得他年轻的时候就是个奸雄了。

这版里最有意思、处理的也最好的两个部分是诸葛亮的北伐/与司马懿对峙，和东吴四代大都督与蜀的较量。

上方谷一役我差点就哭出来了。实际上这个情节决绝的透露出“蜀再也不是那个战无不胜永远正义的主角”。

以下剧透（文君：我被剧透了！我才看到85集～不管没关系，其实也知道后面的故事）：

当司马懿的军队被无望的陷在上方谷等死的时候，司马懿下令让他们投降逃生。手下将军们皆问他会如何，司马懿说，主帅必须战死沙场马革裹尸。军卒和将军们全都拒绝投降。他们也不突围了。司马昭带着大家一起唱起"风萧萧兮易水寒，壮士一去不复返” 。这是荆轲刺秦时所唱的。这时候道义上的复杂性就显露出来了：对于这些魏国的将士们来说，这场战役要中兴汉室没有关系，蜀军是侵略者，他们作为魏国将士就一定要誓死保卫自己的国家。就像荆轲一样，北Wei的战士为保卫中原/抗击西来的入侵者而献出生命（荆轲的时候西来的侵略军是秦，荆轲是卫国人；这时候侵略军是蜀，面对的对魏国人；英文里都是Wei）。

剧透结束。

这版对吴蜀之争也处理的非常好！到最后的时候你完全理解为什么吕蒙执意要徒手砍下关羽的头颅，而且你都想让他去那么做（文君：二爷，这版真对不起你！）。历史上来说吴蜀之争充满了机会主义。但是如果你顺着三国演义的传统，这个版本也是，就不难觉得蜀从头到尾都是在欺负人。但是在三国演义里，东吴的人物都太被弱化了而且一点也不可爱，所以尽管一直是蜀在欺负吴，但是你从来还是会理所当然的希望蜀赢！但是在这版里，周瑜和鲁肃两个人物真是太可爱了，你无法不跟他们站在一边！（文君：这段翻的好爽！敬大都督们！）

凯恩斯 2011-07-01 15:01
去了GN给的链接的论坛，里面英文资料好丰富啊。三国志的英文翻译尤其给力！

原来Lady Wu就是吴国太！

呵呵，这个作者Lady Wu肯定是吴粉啦。

不过这个讨论帖实在太长了，无力爬楼。。。。

慕容雪 2011-07-01 18:48
好有爱的翻译啊~~~~看着外国友人对扭三的看法也很有意思，果然这版东吴众的魅力大增吧~~都督们不管在哪个国家貌似都挺招人喜欢的，O(∩_∩)O哈哈哈~

文君 2011-07-04 12:06
By Zhilong:
再来更一段新的。这是另一位外国童鞋对扭三的整体评价。

SPOILERS WARNING!

Just finished the series. In the older version the start until Liu Bei gets to Jing always bored me. By contrast the newer version made that section much more watchable for me. The new versions portrayal of Lu Bu and Diao Chan was excellent to watch imo as i've never liked watching Lu Bu before.

The Chibi section dragged on for freaking ages it seemed and the whole Zhou Yu/Zhuge Liang love affair got very tiresome.

I felt the new ZL could not compare to the old actor which was quite disappointing. In the old version, ZL's appearance and until his death is a high point but the new one was a bit meh. He was constantly worried, depressed or ill. The treatment of his northern campaigns was pretty crap imo - the way they edited and condensed things really pissed all over the last great arc of the story imo. Devoting too much time to relatively unimportant stuff and skipping/condensing what should have been really exciting stuff was a problem with this series.

Ppl always complain in the old series that Wu is skipped over in the latter part of the series but at least there was the occassional cut scene to show what was going on in Wu but in this series after Ma Su's diplomatic envoy (stealing Deng Zhi's role) to repair the alliance after the death of Liu Bei - there was never another scene about Wu. I was really disappointed about that since the actor for Sun Quan and Zhang Zhao were great. Lu Xun was kinda disappointing but still better than the chubby guy from the old series. lol

Some changes.. like ZL lying to Wei Yan about passing the post of commander in chief to him were unforgivable. For the first half of the series i felt many of the changes were great and made things slightly more logical. But as the series went on i was wary of the changes which got increasingly strange.

All said though, the casting overall was superb and the production values were pretty good. The battles were actually entertaining this time round and each dual they tried to add a new gimmick etc in. The sets were a joy to watch. I felt nothing at the death of ZL but actually felt more for the death of Pang Tong and Lu Bu.

The treatment of Sima Yi by the Wei court was freaking insane. I felt more sorry for Sima Yi than Zhuge Liang due to the injustices he suffered - i was cheering him on to stage a coup. Dealing with the remainder of the story after ZL's death in 1 episode was unforgivable though.

The Wei attendant that Zhang Song had to bribe to gain an audience with Cao Cao - i think he deserves an award for the sheer number of visible characters he played.

I felt Li Yan was a confusing character since it was clear he was clearly political in his motivations but at the end he then gets all righteous and chides ZL for exhausting the Shu populace when all the way through he never gave a crap for either his lords nor the populace. Instead of Li Yan sending a fake memorial that Wu was invading, the memorial is sent by Liu Shan (probably at Li Yan's instigation) as a pretext to get ZL to return to Shu from campaign. I felt that was more logical than Li Yan faking a memorial so that is an example of a positive change imo.
Ok end of my rant.


以下是翻译：

注意有剧透：

刚刚看完全剧来吐槽。老版三国从开始到刘备到荆州的那部分一直都让人觉得索然无味。相比之下扭三把这部分拍的有意思多了。扭三里吕布和貂蝉的戏份也很耐看！扭三之前我从来没有喜欢过吕布。（文君：果然外国人和咱们的欣赏角度还素有不同的！）

我觉得赤壁的部分拖的太长了，整个周瑜/诸葛的“风流事件”也让人生厌（文君：竟然不爱嘟嘟。嘟嘟你的人见人爱花见花开的气场在国外某些童鞋那里失效了嘛？好吧。我只能摊手。）

我觉得扭三里的诸葛亮不能和老版的唐孔明相比，这点还挺让人失望的。老版里，诸葛亮从出场的戏份一直到他病逝都是很精彩的，但是扭三的孔明也就那么回事。他总是很焦虑，或者抑郁，或者病怏怏的。我觉得北伐的部分剧本也很烂-这部分缩水缩的太厉害，我觉得三国故事后期这么精彩的一段内容就这样被他们糟蹋了。不重要的事情拍来拍去没完没了，而很令人兴奋的部分又一带而过或者干脆不提，扭三这方面很有问题。（文君：我还是喜欢扭三里受气小媳妇儿样的诸葛狐狸，是吧？这位童鞋品味跟咱们太不一样袅。。。。『废话，真以为世界大同了』）

大家总是抱怨老版里后半部分的东吴戏份很少，但是至少老版还稍微提了一下放了几个镜头嘛。扭三里自从刘备死后马谡出使东吴（邓芝就去打酱油了）修复孙刘联盟之后，就再也没有任何东吴的戏份了！我真是特别希望啊，因为很粉孙权和张昭的演员啦（文君：您确定您想说的素张爷爷？好吧。。。）！陆逊有点逊，不过还是比老版里的胖胖好多啦。LOL。（文君：同意！看来外国粉丝也对GXX私藏东吴戏表示不满了，话说我们还等得到120集出来的那天么？！另外，小鹿嘟嘟，造型师真是对不住你啊）。

其他的一些改编：比如诸葛亮对魏延说的要传位给他的谎言（我还没看到这里呢，我翻的对么？），让人觉得不可原谅。前半部分的很多改编我都觉得很棒，而且让故事发展更合理了。但是后来慢慢的我觉得这些改编越来越奇怪了。

总而言之，演员整体都表现一流，制作也足够精良。战争场面也很有可看性，阵上武将过招每次都会有新的惊喜。道具也都很给力。诸葛亮死的时候我完全无感，但是庞统和吕布死的时候我确实难过了。

魏国上下对待司马懿的态度简直太变态了。相对于孔明来说我对司马懿的遭遇更加同情，因为他遭受了那么多不公（文君：说到这里我都想替司马求安慰求爱抚。。。我这是肿么了？）看的时候我总想给他加油让他快点政变。诸葛亮死后只有一集就结束了，这简直是不可饶恕。

张松在魏国时候要见曹操前行贿的对象-我觉得他跑了这么多露面的龙套应该得个什么奖了！（文君：嗯，我们已经给他发了）

我觉得李严是个各种混乱的人物，因为很明显他的动机很有政治性的，但是后来他又变得很正义又去责备诸葛亮倾举国人口北伐但是这之间的过程中他从来没表现出他在乎他的主公或者蜀国子民。没有让李严发布假军报说吴军来犯，而是让刘禅发假消息（估计是李严指使的）做托词让诸葛亮班师。我觉得这样比让李严做更合理，这个可以说一个（李严）积极改变的例子也许。（文君：最后这两句我表示翻的完全不知所云）。

OK，我的吐槽完毕！

慕容雪 2011-07-04 19:15
其实我也挺喜欢唐国强的孔明的……那个孔明从头潇洒到尾，外形气质都很好，虽然有点太神乎，不过按小说么确实玄乎的………新版我觉得也挺好，这个孔明实在了很多，事实上他也确实为了各种事件烦恼，觉得他忧心啊什么的其实才是个正常人的表现……

只有喜欢张昭啊……历史上的张昭我挺喜欢，不过扭三的感觉不是欣赏是喜感= =~~外国友人和我的审美不大一样~~~

至于三国后期的故事，确实扭三忽略了很多，嗯……这个可以吐槽……

晓月轻霜 2011-07-04 19:36
唐国强版的诸葛亮很传神，新版的诸葛实在太忧郁了，虽然本来就是个操劳命……不过看到那一直紧锁的眉头就森森觉得很累
小鹿……新三的造型师实在是想让人吐槽，不过确实比老版的馒头脸好了很多~\(≧▽≦)/~新三对东吴的刻画真的很有爱，估计增加了很多东吴粉呢~

刘心然 2011-07-04 21:56
这个英文论坛的楼好高的说，偶又有的爬了。
谢谢楼主的推荐。

崔文 2011-07-05 23:11
引用
引用第14楼晓月轻霜于2011-07-04 19:36发表的  :
唐国强版的诸葛亮很传神，新版的诸葛实在太忧郁了，虽然本来就是个操劳命……不过看到那一直紧锁的眉头就森森觉得很累
小鹿……新三的造型师实在是想让人吐槽，不过确实比老版的馒头脸好了很多~\(≧▽≦)/~新三对东吴的刻画真的很有爱，估计增加了很多东吴粉呢~


森森的强排！！！老版的周瑜和诸葛都有一种很神的感觉，是一种Ideal的类型人格，是适合做偶像的。扭三呢，怎么说，诸葛那个平生未展眉确实有点吃不消= =

碎江 2011-07-08 18:23
翻译辛苦了~~

扭三确实挖掘出不少吴粉呢~

最开始几楼那个确实看到心里好虐……还有遗言回放神马的嘤嘤嘤……

曼德拉 2011-07-09 05:05
老版东吴的剧情非常有限，新版则大大加强了东吴的戏份。三国的戏份基本持平。但是对曹魏的表现比较有限。

曹操我还是欣赏老版，那种霸气和文采斐然，猜忌多疑什么的表现到位之极。新版斯基瞒还是搞笑神马的比较给力，霸气不足，智慧什么的表现也不足。新版荀后相当突出啊！！但是俺最爱的奉孝就是个悲剧...总体上讲新版曹魏气氛比老版轻松不少，虽然其内部复杂程度仍然远超吴蜀。草皮和蚂蚁实在是...老版有讲过这个咩？？？！！！

刘备老版的贴近原著，而新版面瘫刘确实霸气外露，也就更加能解释为什么刘备能三分天下，老版的有些过于仁，近乎羸弱了，让人觉得没有葛后完全就不行。而新版弱化了葛后的神奇程度，相比更加真实，但是毕竟是三国的演义版本，所以瑜亮之战还是有意突出葛后的算无遗策，不过相比老版新版葛后更加接近现实中人啦，尤其是蜀国内部关张二人对葛后时有猜忌之类的，而葛后也会感到压力，老版孔明差不多就是近妖了，百毒不侵。当然陆孔明悲催疲劳的感觉比较明显，但是私以为孔明摊上最弱的蜀国本来就是个难事啊，水镜也说孔明虽得其主不得其时，所以孔明的烦忧其实比魏吴的那些谋士更加繁多，劳心劳力是真的！西蜀之所以能三分天下，的确是因为人和，文臣武将数量有限但是质量有保障。关张二人绝对是老版的经典不解释，不管是演员的神韵，造型，表现力，新版都比较悲剧。马谡在新版也有强化，公瑾你有小棉袄蒙蒙，俺们葛后也有小棉袄幼常啊，所以后来挥泪斩马谡更有可信性。云妹嘛...两版各有千秋啦，老版当然不能称为云妹，你们懂得。

东吴扭三真是大加笔墨啊，西西绝对是吴粉不解释，一个个漂亮的哟。老版对孙权的表现非常有限，不过形象更加合适哈，以前超喜欢的，很有碧眼儿的感觉，但是没那么有用。新版渣权的话，更有些智慧，尤其是对江东内部关系的处理更能显示出“生子当如孙仲谋”的那个仲谋，不过形象就是渣权和碧眼儿没什么关系了。嘟嘟的话老版嘟嘟更有傲气，其“妒”更强，意气风发的话实话比黄嘟嘟更好，而新版稍微强化了瑜亮的惺惺相惜，突出了周瑜的壮志未酬的悲哀，当然黄嘟嘟真是让人叹息啊，不过孔明哭公瑾还是挺假哈，老版的我也觉得挺假...至于孙策嘛，当然也比老版强化了些，但是俺觉得更多的强化是因为铺天盖地的“策瑜”贴造成的假象吧...还有喜欢公瑾的小棉袄吕蒙蒙，新版吕蒙超爱的啊！！小鹿也不错，这些人老版说实话俺都没怎么关注的，因为表现不多。

剧情上嘛，改编挺多的...看到张飞真的去后院放火我差点吐血晕倒，这也行？？？！！！
我觉得扭三的改编有一点不错，就是君臣关系，曹魏的纠结原著什么的炒得已经很热了，斯基瞒的那些旧部有好下场的没几个，新版稍稍弱化。而吴蜀的君臣猜忌新版增加了剧情，关张对葛后的猜忌，渣权对公瑾的不满等等。这些改编使得整个故事更加戏剧性，本来我也没把扭三当历史看。这些剧情小虐但是俺看得听high哈（你是直接当同人看吧...>_<）
其他的改编俺以为有增加对剧情的解释，尤其是借谋臣之口解释一些事件为什么发生，逻辑性更强，更容易理解人物的心境。老版有些时候让人摸不着头脑，觉得前后逻辑不是很清晰。
战争场面西西的扭三表现得有限，老版的表现更多，有些经典战役扭三一笔带过的就去回顾老三吧！！

萌三国 2011-07-09 13:36
同喜欢老版的孔明，心目中的孔明就该是那样。话说三国演义的作者本来就孔明的NC粉么。
新版是用来萌和搞笑的。
大都督两版里都木有还原其神韵，说加了东吴的戏份，东吴最出彩的都督，却不够出彩啊。

芒果冰淇淋 2011-07-10 23:33
第一篇长评那位看得真是仔细，我只注意到另外一场戏有盔甲挂在屋里，但临终这场除了看到嘟嘟蒙蒙和主公之外其他嘛都看不到了，看了几遍都是这样，看来还要再去回顾一遍

芒果冰淇淋 2011-07-10 23:48
说实话作为一个东吴挂，又很欣赏曹操，循着演义的脚本的话怎么拍都不会满意的，于我个人，相对来讲扭三已经比老版接受度高多了，特别是东吴那一帮子演员，都特别有爱，唯一感觉遗憾的反倒是孙策，沙溢演来怎么看都是老白策啊，也不能说他演技不好吧，更不能说他长得不好吧，总之就是觉得遗憾，一直在想如果换个演员多好。

易安 2011-07-14 10:07
海外的筒子们观察的真细致啊，每次看扭三都会把嘟嘟的戏份重温一遍，怎么就这么打动我了捏，不过还从未发现披挂起来的衣服什么的，惭愧惭愧只关注嘟嘟的颜了…

九制瓷 2011-08-02 16:05
海外的筒子们观察的真细致啊，每次看扭三都会把嘟嘟的戏份重温一遍，怎么就这么打动我了捏，不过还从未发现披挂起来的衣服什么的，惭愧惭愧只关注嘟嘟的颜了…

周茶茶 2011-08-09 00:20
天哪，海外观众看得好细节
虽然有些理念实在太海外了
不过嘟嘟的人格魅力实在是太米粒了

望望 2011-08-09 01:34
之前有人把日版的扭三传去了ニコ的时候看过一下。配音感觉是日语古文（？），然后字幕是这古文的翻译这样。
我没有看全啦，就是看了一下宣传片和跳着看了一些片段那样。特别记得其中有弹幕说到（大意）选角很符合印象。还说到貂蝉是美女，还说了些别的不过不太记得了。
题外话，说到电视剧里拍战争场面，与天朝相比，大河剧过家家什么的，某某美剧（不是泛指）连本来原著里的战争场面都剪掉什么的，真是战斗力只有5的渣渣啊

黑皮熊猫 2011-08-28 21:44
诶，原来嘟嘟粉还是遍布全球的群体啊~~~果然亮粉黑嘟嘟的行为是会被澄清地~

随风烈 2011-08-29 10:28
我个人认为嘟嘟和皇叔是本剧最大的亮点~~（CC表示鸭梨很大~~）

落英残泪 2011-09-01 12:35
谢谢分享和翻译。楼主辛苦了~~
这些细节看得我眼睛涩涩的。。。。。。

古典古典 2012-08-07 00:03
新三里东吴各种有爱,可惜戏份被删了不少怨念啊不知道是不是不删的话某些桥段会太腐了?斯基瞒也有爱,看到前面有海外观众说他没有人的感情非常不赞同,新三里瞒宫都快虐死我了.至于皇叔,不知道是不是笑傲江湖看多了总觉得皇叔有点像岳不群...

岚霜城 2012-08-08 09:13
海外观众太给力啦~~~

周瑜透过孙权望向吕蒙的那几眼也妙极！可怜的子明。我真想抱抱他！


第58集

我能再说一遍么？好想抱抱吕蒙蒙！


我也好想抱抱哟~~
不过吴国的戏份神马的，在罗大的笔下，已经成为一片浮云，实在是太少啦

汝是 2013-12-01 21:23
我就说真正的外国人应该不会去愿意理解三国这样复杂的斗争吧。虽然扭三仍然抹黑都督，但好歹在情感上去进行了一些挖掘

阿妖懒得取名字 2013-12-21 10:57
GN翻译辛苦了●▽●

不过我真是没想到原来国外也有人看啊【喂

很好奇他们是怎么看的

是电视上看还是和我们看日漫那样…………好吧，有有些语死早

瑾年绝恋瑜 2014-04-11 21:43
扭三中最喜欢嘟嘟了
不过，扭三中的嘟嘟是在太虐了
看嘟嘟临终时，虐的都哭了。。。。。
非瑜背诺，天不假年········

一尊还酹江月 2015-02-23 09:27
直接挑了翻译的陆逊传看， 又哭了
It is a fact that those who have performed extraordinary deeds will be glorified with boundless honour, and he who is full of martial and governmental talents will be given the burdens of the country. - 夫有超世之功者，必应光大之宠；怀文武之才者，必荷社稷之重。
翻得真好

七月的飞鱼 2017-05-19 07:04
荀彧（有智谋，善决断，狡猾但又忠义）
扭三令君的人设太糟心


查看完整版本: [-- 【评论】海外观众观扭三评论的翻译（嘟嘟相关和全剧）7月4日12楼更新 --] [-- top --]


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